This is one of the best conversations we’ve had on the podcast. @LucaNetz, CEO of @pudgypenguins, one of the most recognisable projects in crypto joined @desh_saurabh to talk about how he turned a dying NFT collection into a $50M cultural brand. They get into why speculation isn’t a crypto problem but a financial markets problem, the three-step playbook of ecosystem, attention and monetisation, how consumer crypto is shifting from ideology to fun and usability, why tokens should be treated as products, and what the future of NFTs and IP looks like. He even left a few hints about an upcoming, likely Abstract token airdrop, one designed to reward true early believers instead of short-term traders. If you’re building in Web3, thinking about consumer products, or just curious how memes turn into empires, this episode is worth your time. You can watch the whole episode here or, if you prefer reading, this article is for you. Let’s get into it. Turning Culture into Capital One of the most powerful things about Web3 is its ability to tokenise intangibles. When financial rails are added to cultural phenomena, alignment is created among participants. This financial layer enables culture to compound more effectively than traditional methods. Community members who contribute to spreading a cultural movement can now benefit directly from its success, creating powerful incentive structures that weren't previously possible When financial rails are added to cultural phenomena, alignment is created among participants. This financial layer enables culture to compound more effectively than traditional methods. Community members who contribute to spreading a cultural movement can now benefit directly from its success, creating powerful incentive structures that weren't previously possible. Memecoins are the clearest example. A joke or a vibe, once captured in a token, can move billions of dollars. But Luca’s approach went a step further: how do you ensure that the cultural impact you create also shows up as revenue? Pudgy Penguins is the case study. Their GIFs generate billions of views. Their toys sit on shelves from New York to Mumbai. Their characters appear in games, retail experiences, and social content. IP and character incubation, crowdfunded by a community that not only believes early but also shares in the upside is gamechanging for creators. Pudgy shows that there can be a cohort of brands born from culture, incubated by tokenisation, scaled by community, and monetised through global distribution. Speculation Isn’t the Problem Whenever crypto enters the spotlight, one critique always surfaces: “It’s all just speculation.” Luca doesn’t shy away from this point. His view is simple: speculation is not unique to crypto it’s inherent to financial markets. Take Tesla. Its price-to-earnings (P/E) ratio is 3–4x higher than BYD, even though both companies deliver similar revenue (and in some cases BYD outperforms). What’s the difference? Speculation on Tesla’s future. Investors believe its technology and brand will compound value, so they price in tomorrow’s growth today. The issue in crypto isn’t speculation itself. It’s the gap between speculation and execution. Many projects raise billions claiming to be “the next Ethereum,” with little infrastructure or adoption to justify those valuations. That’s why Luca stresses: speculation is fine but only when it sits on top of a real ecosystem, a sticky product, and actual revenue. Speculation in crypto is much more hollow than in Web2. And that brings us back to Pudgy’s three-step playbook. The Pudgy Playbook: Ecosystem, Attention and Monetisation 1. Ecosystem When Luca acquired Pudgy Penguins, he didn’t just buy an IP he inherited a community. The store, the lore were the foundation. Pudgy’s ecosystem is unusually diverse with billionaires, crypto founders, collectors, and everyday fans. In Luca’s words, “community is the soil, brand is the flower.” 2. Attention Attention wasn’t left to chance. Pudgy didn’t just “go viral” they engineered virality. Every piece of content, every meme format, every storyline was optimised to travel. Jimmy Donaldson (MrBeast) has often said: attention is a science. Luca agrees. The team tracked sentiment, tested memes, refined characters. The result was that Pudgy Penguins became “hate-proof.” The characters are cute, approachable, and universal. They represent hope, happiness, and connection qualities that resonate far beyond crypto Twitter. The result was 50 billion+ views on social media. Penguins are popping up in grocery store aisles, arcade games, and TikToks alike. 3. Monetisation Most of crypto fails. Attention without revenue doesn’t mean anything. Pudgy’s brilliance was in translating cultural cachet into predictable cash flows. Once the attention was captured, Pudgy Penguins used it to generate revenue through licensing deals. They sold over 1.5 million toys across over 10,000 Walmart and Target stores. • 80% of revenue comes from licensing. With 45+ active agreements, partners pay to use Pudgy characters in toys, games, merchandise, and digital products. Example: Pengu Clash, a mobile game, is set to generate $100K+ this month alone. Luca aims to make 300 licenses in 18 months that could bring in consistent revenue expected in billions annually • 20% comes from in-house products and events. This keeps the brand close to its community while letting licensing scale the reach. By the end of 2025, this model will push Pudgy to $50M revenue. Consumer Crypto One of Luca’s sharpest takes is about the state of crypto products. His stance is that crypto apps are built for high-IQ insiders, not everyday people. Instagram’s success didn’t come from decentralisation or ideology, but from simplicity; anyone could open it and instantly get it. Most crypto apps, on the other hand, demand technical literacy and ideological buy-in. Luca argues that decentralisation and great consumer experiences often sit at odds, something that even Andre Cronje mentioned on our podcast. And while ethos is important, it won’t onboard the next billion users. The opportunity is in consumer crypto making products fun, intuitive, and rewarding. He points to projects like Worldcoin, Abstract, and Base as steps in this direction. His own play here is @AbstractChain's Portal, an “everything app” aimed at Gen Z and Gen Alpha, blending sports, betting, and games. Think of Abstract as the infrastructure layer (Anthropic), and Portal as the consumer-facing app (Claude). The goal is to capture the rest of the ocean, people who won’t care about DeFi yields but will happily play, laugh, and share if the journey is fun. The Airdrop Tease Of course, no Luca conversation would be complete without a little alpha. During the podcast, he dropped some hints about an upcoming Abstract token airdrop. Instead of rewarding last-minute farmers, it’s designed to benefit true early believers who’ve been part of the journey. For him, airdrops aren’t giveaways; they’re a way to align community and product for the long run. He said there would be no such announcements of this - these podcasts are the proof of what he said and suggested whoever wants to be a part should get in ASAP. Tokens as Products A recurring theme in Luca’s philosophy is treating tokens as products. He cites Apple as an example. Over the years, Apple has bought back more than $700 billion of its stock, effectively treating equity as a product that needs to be managed, optimised, and supported. That’s part of why the stock keeps compounding, even without radical product innovation. For Pudgy, Luca envisions a similar approach. Yes, there will be buybacks but they will be strategic, and not unless there’s no other trick left. “You do buybacks when there’s nothing better to do with the cash,” he quotes Mark Zuckerberg. Until then, Luca’s focus is on marketing, expansion, and building products that generate value. Still, his intent is clear that $PENGU will be deflationary. The long-term ambition is to rival Dogecoin not just in meme status, but in sustainable tokenomics. So, Will NFTs Come Back? Absolutely, but not in the way most expect. The days of buying a meme for $500 and flipping it for $10K are likely gone. That speculative frenzy was a one-off. The future of NFTs lies in sustainable models where IP is nurtured, monetised, and shared with the community. Pudgy Penguins proves this path. NFTs will be the seeds of brands, games, toys, and global cultural moments. Closing Thoughts Luca Netz took a “dead” NFT and turned it into a $50M empire. In doing so, he bridged the gap between crypto’s speculative roots and Web2’s consumer playbook. The lesson is speculation is fine, but speculation backed by culture, community, and cash flow is unstoppable. Tokens aren’t just instruments, they can be products. And culture, when tokenised and distributed, can be one of the most powerful economic engines of our time. ----- Timestamps — 0:00 – Intro 2:45 – Tokenising Culture, Memes & Influence 10:48 - The role of speculation 15:30 – The Three Pillars of Crypto Value: Ecosystem, Attention & Revenue 21:55 – The Pudgy Playbook 27:56 – What Luca knew when he bid $2.5 million on Pudgy IP 30:45 – What's Broken in Consumer Crypto 38:20 – Fixing Onboarding: Abstract Portal & The Future of Adoption 49:43 – Building for Gen Z & Gen Alpha 51:10 – Lessons from $PENGU Airdrop 54:09 – Is Token a Product?